Saturday, November 24, 2007

The FYROM case of Rosetta Stone



Recently in the internet we have a contibution of research work of the two Slavmacedonian scientists Tentov and Bosheski and members of the FYROM MANU and MASA centers , that they have found a connection between the ancient Macedonian language and the modern Slavonic Macedonian language.

The key is that the second part of the Rosetta Stone is written in ancient Macedonian, a language that according of these FYROMacedonian scientists was and is Slavic.

The attempt of the Slavmacedonian pseudo-scientists (they are not have not a any single connection with the epigraphology or the linguistic) to connect the modern Slavonic Macedonian - a Slavic language related to Bulgarian - is rediculus.

These 2 university professors in electrical engineering from Skopje, operating under the auspices of the government funded Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Skopje and presented to the official FYROMacedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts, are claiming that the "Demotic" script is, in fact, a text related to the "old Slavonic Macedonian language" and is Ancient Macedonian.

This contradicts all mainstream interpretations of the Stone and the mainstream scientific evidence that Ancient Macedonian was not a Slavic language and, not least, that Slavic speaking peoples did not reach the Balkan peninsula until the 6th Century CE.

This theory is also promoted by the authorities and church in Skopje as a "2,200 Years Old Script and Text in the Macedonian Language" and host in the web site of the Skopje University.

http://rosetta-stone.etf.ukim.edu.mk/

The Rosetta Stone is a stone with writing on it in two languages (Egyptian and Greek), using three scripts (hieroglyphic, demotic and Greek). Rosetta Stone is written in three scripts because when it was written, there were three scripts being used in Egypt.

The first was hieroglyphic which was the script used for important or religious documents.


The second was demotic which was the common script of Egypt.

The third was Greek which was the language of the rulers of Egypt at that time

The Rosetta Stone was written in all three scripts so that the priests, government officials and rulers of Egypt could read what it said.

Here is the last translation of Rosetta Stone that approve the above...

53. and each year; and in order to make those who are in Egypt to know [why it is that the Egyptians pay honour—as it is most right and proper to do—to the god who maketh himself beautiful, whose deeds are beautiful, the priests have decreed] that this DECREE shall [be inscribed] upon a stele of hard stone in the writing of the words of the gods, and the writing of the books, and in the writing of HAUI-NEBUI (i.e., Greeks), and it shall be set up in the sanctuaries in the temples which [are called] by his name, of the first, second, and third [class], near the statue of the HORUS, the King of the South and North Ptolemy, ever-living, beloved of Ptaḥ, the god who maketh himself manifest, whose deeds are beautiful.

from... " The Nile, Notes for Travellers in Egypt, by E. A. Wallis Budge, 9th Edition, London, Thos. Cook and Son, [1905], pp. 199-211."

This pseudo-essay from these "amazing professors" is a great example of the Macedonism, a political ultra-nationalistic moovement used to refer to a set of ideas regarded as characteristic of ethnic Slavmacedonian nationalism.

In my blog Modern-Macedonian-History I have already explain as about this nationalist ideology and you can read in the article....Macedonism, a ultra-Nationalilst ideology that spread from FYROM Worldwide

more information as about the history of the Rosetta Stone, including researches and the latest news from several academaic centers in

UPDATE
(30-7-2008)
It seems that at last there are a few rational voices in the in the land of unreasonableness.This voice is the Slavmacedonian professor Petar H. Ilievski is an established Mycenologist, chairman of the Mycenology Congress in 1987 in Ohrid and author of over 100 works about classical antiquity. The following is real tour de force kill of the dragon,and although there are some point with which do not hold much promise, authorś integrity and honesty are obvious and the reasoning for the invalidity of the ¨discovery¨ by Bosevski and Tentov is structured separately throughout the text.
Some abstracts...
Ignoring elementary principles of the continuous development in the languages, like in all the living beings, they try to discover even the same grammatical and morpho-syntactic peculiarities of analytic type of these two different languages, distant over 2000 years, e.g.: the same way of comparison of the adjectives, the superlative in naj-; the nom. pl. masc. of the nominal inflection in -i; the frequent use of the preposition na, etc.
...........................................................................
But all that in their work on the Rosetta Stone is ignored, and the authors started to search new traces of the ancient Macedonian script and language by an opposite approach.
............................................................................................
You can read the whole analysis in this link.
This information were taken by our friend Vasiliye.
UPDATE II
(29 Sept 2008)
Tentov-Boshevski Delusions of Grandeur
In this link there is is an excellent analysis of Tentov & Boshevski's far fetched theory which suggests that a form of Slavic, related to the language spoken in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, is written on the Rosetta Stone. Even though NO qualified scholars have taken their theory seriously and even though their theory has not appeared in any peer reviewed publications nationalists from the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (F.Y.R.O.M) persist in presenting the Tentov-Boshevski theory as historical fact. In the following article Mr. Bolaris shows how absurd the claims of Tentov and Boshevski are.
For a high resolution view of the article please click here. Select the "Full Screen" view.

4 comments:

  1. just I want to add some crtitical points recarding the decipherment of a unknown script since here we confuse the Cat and the Dog.

    The first step in trying to decipher an unknown script is the analysis of the texts. We need to know what sort of a script it is, and what can be deduced about the contents of the inscriptions. All scripts can be classified as one of three types:

    a) phonetic, b) ideographic, c) mixed.

    Phonetic scripts represent by their signs the sounds of the language. They do not of course give a detailed picture of those sounds.For one thing, it would be confusing if every speaker wrote exactly as he spoke, for then the same utterance would be recorded in many different ways. There is therefore a conventional element in scripts which eliminates most of the individual differences between speakers.

    Secondly, to represent even roughly the range of sounds employed would demand a much larger alphabet that the twenty-six letters we use in English. One from the most knowner epigarphologists and decoder John Chadwick (British origin) said that many languages employ diacritical marks on letters to indicate special values, but even so all phonetic scripts are only a notation adequate to permit someone who knows the language to reconstruct the word for himself. The segments into which the stream of speech is analysed for notation may vary in size.

    Alphabetic scripts aim at the ideal of one sign for each sound though English, for example often departs from this idea!. Other languages in the past have used syllabic scripts, where each sign represents a pronounceable syllable. These may vary from the simple type where each sign denotes a consonant followed by a vowelto more complex types where there are signs for vowels followed by consonants and for groups of consonant, vowel and consonant, and so on.

    Key words to read a script, specially in the Rosetta Stone issue

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com

    translation............The act or process of translating, especially from one language into another.
    e.g.
    Egyptian demotike language to English language.(The Rosetta Stone by Wallis Budge )


    transliteration.....To represent (letters or words) in the corresponding characters of another alphabet.
    e.g.
    Egyptian demotike script to latin script.(The Rosetta Stone by Wallis Budge )

    Deciphering........
    1. To read or interpret (ambiguous, obscure, or illegible matter).
    2. To convert from a code or cipher to plain text; decode.
    e.g.
    Deciphering of the Egyptian Hieroglyphic (Upper Script) with the help of the Egyptian demotike (middle cript) and the Ancient Greek (lower script)


    In our case Rosetta Stone (not the only one ) has these diacritical marks (mean Egyptian demotike) that help us (with the Greek text) to decipher the Egyptian Hieroglyphic script. The essay of the pseudo-macedonists it doesnt USE THESE DIAGRITICAL MARKS but only the phoenetical.

    Is a falsificated trick that use people like the two Slavmacedonians "professors" in order to run-around the common people but not the academaics.

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  2. You and all like you, are making confusion about the truth. I am asking all who are on a crossroad about the Macedonian question, to be patient and wait for the scientific truth about Macedonia and about the Rosetta Stone decoding.
    The most important VERY new thing is that, in several ancient places found in Republic Of Macedonia, are some artifacts showing that here in the Balkan especially in some ancient places were one of the oldies civilizations of the world and of the human kind.

    What I want to say is that there were Ancient Greeks with their civilizational, cultural and language marks. They have different style of building and look of the temples. (everybody knows the Athens Acropolis). Macedonian buildings and ancient temples are very different, that shows the different style and different way of building.

    There were ancient Macedonians, who were with their own civilizational, cultural, traditions and secrets about the LIFE and living at all. All traditions and cultural marks were present and all are different than those from the ancient greeks.

    The very new fundings of artifacts are just proving the existence of literature language and letters actually Cyrillic letters, as characteristic for the Ancient Macedonians, for the people who leave in those territories. The origin of the letters is the biggest secret of civilization at all.
    so: Greek, ancient Greek, Greek language with alphabed
    Macedonia, ancient Macedonia, macedonian language and Macedonians

    JUST MAKE a difference, it is different.

    The Slavs do not exists, the Slavs are actually Macedonians who stayed in Asia and live there for a century that come back to their native country and native territory from where they belong. The MACEDONIANS spread around. Also the Macedonian letters and language has been spreading and gave as CIVILIZATIONAL and HUMANISTIC gift to other nations.

    Just do a research and will see the the new scientific foundlings especially done with the decoding of the Rosetta Stone, are showing some remarkable facts, that all nations using Cyrillic letters actually are PROVING the existence of Macedonians and Great Macedonian culture and civilization.

    After all the key point is that:
    Only the SUN is older than MACEDONIA (MAKEDONIJA - МАКЕДОНИЈА (in Cyrillic)


    I dont want to Analise why some nations and governments want to erase those facts and to make a confusion about the truth.
    But believe Macedonians are here and were here and will be here. Always peaceful and always for helping to others and with the Holly secrets and powers for the LIVE at all.

    http://rosetta-stone.etf.ukim.edu.mk/MK/slogovni_znaci.html

    ReplyDelete
  3. eismakedon9:10 AM

    Dear "Lord of the Peace" (in Slavic: Vladimir).
    We can wait a long time until the Rosetta Stone is deciphered by the methods of Tendov and Boshevski.
    Their methods a a blind alley. Unfortunately, you seem to be following them into that blind alley, like the children of the medieval fable followed the flutist, into their doom.
    For a person to negate his own roots and to negate his own self-identity is tragic enough: psychological and psychiatric support is needed to bring that person into balance with his own self and true identity.
    When this is happening with a whole population, as is apparently the case with your people, then this dichotomy of identity acquires catastrophic proportions.

    You say that: "The Slavs do not exist, the Slavs are actually Macedonians who stayed in Asia and live there for a century (at least make that century a millenium, to be closer to the true timetable) that come back to their native country and native territory from where they belong. The MACEDONIANS spread around."
    Do you have any idea how much ridicule you will bring upon your nation when this nonsense becomes known outside the narrow confines of your land locked space, and educated people in the West as well as in other Slavic countries find out about these outlandish claims?
    Has anybody told you that history is not fables but a scientific endeavor that requires proofs and archeological and epigraphical records to back any claims and theories up?
    Since you try to make a distinction between the temple Architecture of the Greeks and temples in Macedonia...would you please let me know which temples
    in Macedonia are you referring to that are so different from the temples on the Acropolis? The temple fragments I remember seeing in the Museums of Thessaloniki and Thassos and Cavala are purely Greek, and the facades of the Macedonian tombs are as pure Ionian in style as anything you can find in Ionia, and as Doric as you can find in Southern Italy...so, please stop exposing such gross lack of knowledge and stop making claims such as that
    "artifacts are just proving the existence of literature language and letters actually Cyrillic letters, as characteristic for the Ancient Macedonians" because even
    young children in Russia or Ukraina 9to mention two Slavic nations unblinded by your type of Balkan nationalist poison) know where and when the brothers Constantinos-Cyrillos and Methodios invented their alphabet.
    And since I have no idea of which
    Slavo-Macedonian "letters and language has been spreading and gave as CIVILIZATIONAL and HUMANISTIC gift to other nations." you are referring to...can you please mention a man of the letters that is known outside of your country? Can you find a Frenchm,an or an Italian, or a German, or even a Greek that can name ONE of your literary giants that has given his light to the rest of the civilized word? I can tell you none...and that is not an issue...since if you were acting in anormal way, you would have taken this as a challenge for your young state and nation,and try to outshine yourselves and your neighbors by creating a new culture, but what is your answer to your evident lack of a cultural identity? You claim everyone else's culture.
    You probably heard of Aesop, the ancient Greek fable story teller. A crow was tired of the drab black fethers and decided to become the most beautifull bird, so it collected feathers of great colors falling from the nests of the other birds. The crow made a feather plumage that outshone all other birds in the forest and ever other bird was jealous, until some feathers starting falling and then the other birds started taking all the false feathers off the crow's plumage, revealing its true gray black boring identity.
    Go ahead and claim all you want, even that: "Only the SUN is older than MACEDONIA (MAKEDONIJA - МАКЕДОНИЈА (in Cyrillic)"
    buty besides your kindergarten children, whom else are you going to convince with this idiotic slogans? Oh, and by the way, I text messaged Cyrillos and he assured me that he had never had a "J" in the alphabet he gave to you...Just ask the Russians how they spell Rosiya...


    I do believe that after some point you were indeed here and you are here and will be here. We have no problem with that...but please if you want to live "Always peaceful and always for helping to others(sic)", start accepting your true Slavic identity and forget Macedonia and the Ancient Macedonians and come out of your collective delusional state because I am seriously asking myself: what on earth did Vladimir smoke before he wrote "with the Holly secrets and powers for the LIVE at all." because it makes no sense to me...so, if you are far from a Psychologist, I would suggest you at least pay a visit to your local priest...he may be able to help! I am sure h will be more than interested to know your "HOLY SECRETS", because I am a already yawning...I have a very low tolerance for this kind of Balkan nonsense!
    Blogodarya-eucharisto!

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous6:34 PM

    Why is everyone so scared of the truth. Macedonia existed. Alexander was macedonian - taught by a non macedonian teacher - I will not call the teacher greek because technically in 300 bc there was not greece or greeks> 300bc greece was compromised of many city states thrace, ionna, athenia sparta were some states but they were not a country. Greece has only been a country for around 300 years, before that they were under ottoman rule and before that they were city states. Where as, Macedonia was a kingdom.

    ReplyDelete